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    Does the Constitution

    burden we the people with a duty to overthrow our government or is voting our only recourse? I believe it does provide that duty under specific and limiting circumstances as evidenced by the following: “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security”.

    So at what point would it become necessary to act upon this duty and are we, as a free Republic approaching that point? The conditions and circumstances of our Republic on 1/6/21 did not approach the justification for such action and should be considered a seditious conspiracy but under what circumstances would such an overthrow be required?
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    #2
    Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post
    burden we the people with a duty to overthrow our government or is voting our only recourse? I believe it does provide that duty under specific and limiting circumstances as evidenced by the following: “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security”.

    So at what point would it become necessary to act upon this duty and are we, as a free Republic approaching that point? The conditions and circumstances of our Republic on 1/6/21 did not approach the justification for such action and should be considered a seditious conspiracy but under what circumstances would such an overthrow be required?
    OK...I'm confused....It looks like this quote first appears in the Declaration of Independence in regard to the King encroaching on "Colonists right's". Is it also in the Constitution?

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      #3
      That quote is from the Declaration of Independence

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        #4
        It does, but is it Constitutional? When would it be Constitutional to do it?
        sigpic

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          #5
          There is nothing in the Constitution allowing for a process to destroy or overthrow the government. The Constitution doesn't not contain a self destruct button. It DOES have a way to be amended. In fact there are four ways to amend it and at least one of those involves the people and not Congress deciding.


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            #6
            Originally posted by rosefeathers View Post
            There is nothing in the Constitution allowing for a process to destroy or overthrow the government. The Constitution doesn't not contain a self destruct button. It DOES have a way to be amended. In fact there are four ways to amend it and at least one of those involves the people and not Congress deciding.


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            Hence why it is the perfect document, it allows for corrections.

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              #7
              Originally posted by rosefeathers View Post
              There is nothing in the Constitution allowing for a process to destroy or overthrow the government. The Constitution doesn't not contain a self destruct button. It DOES have a way to be amended. In fact there are four ways to amend it and at least one of those involves the people and not Congress deciding.


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              So despite this nation beginning from a Declaration of Independence it is unconstitutional to do so today? Not arguing, legitimate question. I understand the convention of states process but it too relies on politicians to be convened. For argument’s sake though, what if a convention of states was held and Congress refused to comply with the resultant amendments?
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                #8
                What does the 2nd Amendment do IYO?


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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bill Morgan View Post
                  What does the 2nd Amendment do IYO?


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                  You get my point!
                  sigpic

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post

                    So despite this nation beginning from a Declaration of Independence it is unconstitutional to do so today? Not arguing, legitimate question. I understand the convention of states process but it too relies on politicians to be convened. For argument’s sake though, what if a convention of states was held and Congress refused to comply with the resultant amendments?
                    It would be just as Illegal today as it was in 1776, so anyone planning to do had better succeed, as losers are usually placed in front of a firing squad.
                    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

                    Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.

                    -Alexis de Tocqueville

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Harry Vols View Post

                      It would be just as Illegal today as it was in 1776, so anyone planning to do had better succeed, as losers are usually placed in front of a firing squad.
                      Ok, so can a state legally secede from the Union and declare its own independence?
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post

                        Ok, so can a state legally secede from the Union and declare its own independence?
                        Nope. That's a little thang called Treason.


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                          #13
                          Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post

                          So despite this nation beginning from a Declaration of Independence it is unconstitutional to do so today? Not arguing, legitimate question. I understand the convention of states process but it too relies on politicians to be convened. For argument's sake though, what if a convention of states was held and Congress refused to comply with the resultant amendments?
                          No in all seriousness the constitution makes no mention of secession


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                            #14
                            Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post

                            Ok, so can a state legally secede from the Union and declare its own independence?
                            It was tried once, didn't work well.
                            Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

                            Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.

                            -Alexis de Tocqueville

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post

                              Ok, so can a state legally secede from the Union and declare its own independence?
                              You could be the 2022 version of John Brown


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                                #16
                                “They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power.”
                                ― Patrick Henry

                                “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
                                ― Benjamin Franklin

                                “Give me liberty or give me death."
                                -Patrick Henry

                                “There! His Majesty can now read my name without glasses. And he can double the reward on my head!”
                                ― John Hancock

                                “Our cruel and unrelenting Enemy leaves us no choice but a brave resistance, or the most abject submission; this is all we can expect - We have therefore to resolve to conquer or die: Our own Country's Honor, all call upon us for a vigorous and manly exertion, and if we now shamefully fail, we shall become infamous to the whole world. Let us therefore rely upon the goodness of the Cause, and the aid of the supreme Being, in whose hands Victory is, to animate and encourage us to great and noble Actions - The Eyes of all our Countrymen are now upon us, and we shall have their blessings, and praises, if happily we are the instruments of saving them from the Tyranny meditated against them. Let us therefore animate and encourage each other, and shew the whole world, that a Freeman contending for Liberty on his own ground is superior to any slavish mercenary on earth.”
                                ― George Washington

                                “Let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarcy, that in America the law is King. For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other.”
                                ― Thomas Paine

                                “Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Beside, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us.”
                                ― Patrick Henry

                                “I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way.”
                                ― John Paul Jones

                                “Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.”
                                ― Tom Paine

                                “Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood.”
                                ― John Adams

                                “These are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their county; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny like hell is not easily conquered yet we have this consolation with us, the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value.”
                                ― Thomas Paine

                                “That these are our grievances which we have thus laid before his majesty, with that freedom of language and sentiment which becomes a free people claiming their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.”
                                ― Thomas Jefferson

                                “When the government violates the people's rights, insurrection is, for the people and for each portion of the people, the most sacred of the rights and the most indispensible of duties.”
                                ― Marquis De Lafayette


                                Which sitting congressional critter would dare utter words such as these?
                                Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

                                Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.

                                -Alexis de Tocqueville

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Boydog View Post

                                  You could be the 2022 version of John Brown


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                                  You misspelled Holmes.
                                  sigpic

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by el Jeffe View Post

                                    You misspelled Holmes.
                                    LOL.

                                    I read a quote that "John Holmes claimed to have had sex with 10000 women. He died of friction."

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by rocketcityvol View Post

                                      LOL.

                                      I read a quote that "John Holmes claimed to have had sex with 10000 women. He died of friction."
                                      Wilt Chamberlain laughed at his amateur status.
                                      Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

                                      Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.

                                      -Alexis de Tocqueville

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by rocketcityvol View Post

                                        LOL.

                                        I read a quote that "John Holmes claimed to have had sex with 10000 women. He died of friction."
                                        10,000? Sounds like he died of fiction more than friction!


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